TromboneChat

How do you pronounce Jaroslav Cimera's last name? My students always ask me.

I've been saying with a "ch" like it's Italian, but I'm not sure if that's right. If anyone knew him, or was active in the area (Chicago, I think) I'd love to know!

Thanks!

With a sh sound on the front.

Cimera is Bohemian likely from what is now known as the Czech Republic. An online pronounciation guide for Czech states: "c is pronounced like in “Streets.”, so I vote for pronouncing it like "Tsimera'.

We pronounce it "Sim-air-a." Others pronounce it "Suh-mare-a." I'm not sure how Jerry pronounced it. He was my father's cousin. So he probably pronounced it like that side of the family (Sim-air-a).

Also, somebody said that Jerry was Czechoslovakian. The family always considered themselves "Bohemian" (they were from Pilsen), even though they listed themselves as Austrian when they came to the country.

If your family immigrated before World War I, that whole area was called "Austria-Hungary", which included Austria, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia. Most immigrants from this area identified as either Austrian or Hungarian, probably depending on whether they spoke German or Hungarian as their natural language. Bohemia and Moravia were both included in Czechoslovakia at the end of World War I.

Correct. They came over in the early 1900s. Jerry and my father's generation were all very proud to be "Bohemian" and didn't like to be called Czech. I believe they are even buried in a Bohemian cemetery outside Chicago.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 11:37 am If your family immigrated before World War I, that whole area was called "Austria-Hungary", which included Austria, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia. Most immigrants from this area identified as either Austrian or Hungarian, probably depending on whether they spoke German or Hungarian as their natural language. Bohemia and Moravia were both included in Czechoslovakia at the end of World War I.

RCimera wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 2:15 pmJerry and my father's generation were all very proud to be "Bohemian" and didn't like to be called Czech. I believe they are even buried in a Bohemian cemetery outside Chicago.

Those of us who grew up in the United States often don't understand how important distinctions like that are to some people from other parts of the world.

RCimera wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 9:47 am We pronounce it "Sim-air-a." Others pronounce it "Suh-mare-a." I'm not sure how Jerry pronounced it. He was my father's cousin. So he probably pronounced it like that side of the family (Sim-air-a).

Also, somebody said that Jerry was Czechoslovakian. The family always considered themselves "Bohemian" (they were from Pilsen), even though they listed themselves as Austrian when they came to the country.

Wow, now that's hearing from the source! Never expect to get real definitive answers here, but TC comes through this time!

Can any of you explain to me Jerry's contribution to the field? I don't know much about that side of the family. I just knew that he (and his brother James) were "famous" trombones. What were they famous for?

RCimera wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:02 pm Can any of you explain to me Jerry's contribution to the field? I don't know much about that side of the family. I just knew that he (and his brother James) were "famous" trombones. What were they famous for?

Jerry was a noted teacher in the Chicago area. You can find a method book by him on IMSLP.

One of his "students" was Tommy Dorsey, who used to stop by for a lesson when he was nearby. By this time Tommy was already famous with his own band but he still liked getting somebody to listen and comment.

And my teacher Art Sares was also one of Jerry's students.

I'm glad he was so well thought of. I'm a teacher myself. Though I can't play a note.

Well it's really nice to hear from you, an actual descendant. Maybe you should start playing trombone yourself...

One of my very first books was the Cimera - Hovey Method by Jaroslav Cimera and Nilo W. Hovey. Now to find out who Hovey was.... ?

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 5:44 pm Well it's really nice to hear from you, an actual descendant. Maybe you should start playing trombone yourself...

I wish I knew more about him. It's a shame I didn't ask more questions when my grandfather was alive. A lot of history gets lost between generations.

Two of my brothers played trombone. But they didn't quite live up to the family name.

At one time, Schilke produced a three models of "Cimera-Sares" mouthpieces. The Cimera-Sares #1, #2, and #3 eventually became the Schilke 43A, 45B, and 47B. Pretty sure they go back to the early days of Schilke's.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 5:44 pm Well it's really nice to hear from you, an actual descendant. Maybe you should start playing trombone yourself...

One of my very first books was the Cimera - Hovey Method by Jaroslav Cimera and Nilo W. Hovey. Now to find out who Hovey was.... ?

Here you go: Nilo W. Hovey

I still use my copy of Cimera’s “55 Phrasing Studies.” It’s in my warm-up rotation.

Allow me to again share these Cimera discs I uploaded to YouTube a few years back:



I studied with Scott Bentall, who studied Cimera's approach with Art Sares...

Very nice to hear from Rcimera!

Sdoubler wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 3:06 pm Allow me to again share these Cimera discs I uploaded to YouTube a few years back:



I studied with Scott Bentall, who studied Cimera's approach with Art Sares...

Very nice to hear from Rcimera!

Any insight to his approach you can share?

Thanks,
Michael

In F# ?

norbie2018 wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 6:13 pm
Any insight to his approach you can share?

Thanks,
Michael

His style is very reminiscent of Arthur Pryor. It was a style that was popular 100-140 years ago. If you try this on a Solo and Ensemble nowadays you will get poor grades. We don't play like that any more. Still, he is showing his full mastery of Arban's.

I was hoping the poster could give insight to his pedagogy, as, if I read correctly, he studied with someone might know.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 8:33 pmIn F# ?

My old Curtis Mathes hi-fi might spin a bit fast!

norbie2018 wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 6:13 pm

Sdoubler wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 3:06 pm Allow me to again share these Cimera discs I uploaded to YouTube a few years back:



I studied with Scott Bentall, who studied Cimera's approach with Art Sares...

Very nice to hear from Rcimera!

Any insight to his approach you can share?

Thanks,
Michael

I'd have to dig up my lesson notes - what I remember most interesting off the top of my head was that nearly everything was played with vibrato, starting with slow ascending scales. "Violin players do it, why shouldn't we?"

It was a different time with different aesthetics to be sure!

J Cimera was my teacher in the 1960s when I was in junior high and high school.

One of the posts above mentioned his style as being similar to that of A Pryor. Perhaps that's why I had the experience I had with playing a solo in the district solo and ensemble contest that he helped me prepare for.

I played one of the solos he had written for 8th grader competitions-- he wrote a number and i can't remember which one it was.

To make a long story short, the judge didn't like how I interpreted it and marked down in the category of musical interpretation.

When I came back with the comment sheet to my next lesson, I heard words that no 13 year old boy's mom would ever want him to hear. Needless to say the old Czech wasn't very happy with the judge's comments and had many words to say about how he was an idiot who had no idea how to interpret the solo that Cimera had actually composed and taught me how to interpret.

Did he refer to himself as Czech?

Our side of the family (my father and grandfather) always insisted on being called Bohemian.

JohntheTheologian wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2024 8:56 pm J Cimera was my teacher in the 1960s when I was in junior high and high school.

One of the posts above mentioned his style as being similar to that of A Pryor. Perhaps that's why I had the experience I had with playing a solo in the district solo and ensemble contest that he helped me prepare for.

I played one of the solos he had written for 8th grader competitions-- he wrote a number and i can't remember which one it was.

To make a long story short, the judge didn't like how I interpreted it and marked down in the category of musical interpretation.

When I came back with the comment sheet to my next lesson, I heard words that no 13 year old boy's mom would ever want him to hear. Needless to say the old Czech wasn't very happy with the judge's comments and had many words to say about how he was an idiot who had no idea how to interpret the solo that Cimera had actually composed and taught me how to interpret.

There have been so many changes in European country boundaries that you often couldn't say exactly where you were from. My family came from an area now known as the Slovak Republic, but they understood Hungarian. Germany was forged from a bunch of little dutchies and Germans often refer to themselves by which dutchy they came from (Bavarian, Prussian, etc.).

Was Dvorak Bohemian or Czech? I think he came from the same area as the Cimeras.

Still, I like working from the 55 Melodic Etudes as a "simpler Rochut".

We live near Cedar Rapids, Iowa and the Czech and Slovak museum there tells those who visit that Bohemian is an out-of-date way of referreing to Czech immigrants. The older histories of Czech immigrants in our area generally refer to them as Bohemians, but the museum says Czech is actually the proper term.

Perhaps this short explanation from Wikapedia might help:

"Bohemia (/boʊˈhiːmiə/ boh-HEE-mee-ə;[2] Czech: Čechy [ˈtʃɛxɪ] ⓘ;[3] German: Böhmen [ˈbøːmən] ⓘ; Upper Sorbian: Čěska [ˈtʃɪska]; Silesian: Czechy) is the westernmost and largest historical region of the Czech Republic. Bohemia can also refer to a wider area consisting of the historical Lands of the Bohemian Crown ruled by the Bohemian kings, including Moravia and Czech Silesia,[4] in which case the smaller region is referred to as Bohemia proper as a means of distinction.[5]"

BTW, J Cimera pronounced the name as Tsimera, as suggested above, if my memory is correct. Some European pronunciations are not easily transferred to American English. Some of my Dutch forbears came from near Gouda of cheese fame and the true Dutch pronunciation of the town is something like GKHowda, somewhat akin to the ch sound in Bach-- definitely not Gooda as most Americans pronounce it. I grew up next door to a Dutch immigrant family and Mrs Balkema would greet my brother Gerry-- short for Gerrit- by saying How are you today, GKHerry. I really can't speak the language my grandparents spoke, but I can do the hard Dutch gutteral G that most Americans can't speak because I heard it regularly. Dutch immigrants from the province of Friesland in the north of the Netherlands also have initial letters that Americans puzzle over. For example the Frisian language-- which is distinct from Dutch and considered the closest to English-- has lots of words that start with Tj or Sj. The Frisian word for cheese is tjiis, pronounced almost the same as the English word cheese. A Frisian name common in my home town, which had lots of Frisian immigrants, was Sjoerdsma, pronounced something like Shirtsma. I'm guessing that the Cimera name is something like that phenomena.