Modification of Axial Flow Valve Wrap Design

[hiktro]

Hi all,

I would like to share with you all my recently completed wrap modification for my Bach 42T.

I know BOSC sells X-wrap tubes for axial flow valve, but I have only seen drawings. (Has anyone seen the real?)
So I purchased four 80 wrap tubes from Instrument Innovations and had my tech modify 42T to wrap design similar to their drawings.
https://instrumentinnovations.com/tenor-80-wrap-tube/

I really like this compact wrap design. Of course it plays well

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[elmsandr]

Nice!

I’ve always just wanted to bring the wrap a bit forward and add a smaller radius dump slide in front of the main bell brace to keep the wrap inside the main tuning slide envelope.

Cheers,
Andy

[harrisonreed]

That looks beautiful. I would personally miss the long pull, but if you don't need it that is great.

[Burgerbob]

Very cool. And nice valve! I'll post mine in a bit.

[tbonesullivan]

This reminds me that I need to find a tech to work with to have my 42T fit and adjusted with an Instrument Innovations valve and stuff. But then I play it and decide to just keep it as is, as the valve still works well.

Still. that is a great looking horn, and is that a Hoelle tuning slide I spy?

[Burgerbob]

Not really worth making a new thread, so here's the super low-profile section Benn Hansson just put together for me, also with a stainless axial on a 42. Sorry, no Hoelle tuning slide, but a nickel one instead:

[Matt K]

That's pretty slick. I definitely prefer this to the similar Rejano design Shires has with the multiple "C" bends.

[hiktro]

This reminds me that I need to find a tech to work with to have my 42T fit and adjusted with an Instrument Innovations valve and stuff. But then I play it and decide to just keep it as is, as the valve still works well.

Still. that is a great looking horn, and is that a Hoelle tuning slide I spy?

Yes. I had Matthias Hölle make me a copper tuning slide, 5 mm shorter than normal one. For me, Bach tend to be flat..

Not really worth making a new thread, so here's the super low-profile section Benn Hansson just put together for me, also with a stainless axial on a 42. Sorry, no Hoelle tuning slide, but a nickel one instead:

Nice. It looks very slim.
How did you feel about nickel tuning slide? I have not played the nickel TS yet and would be happy to hear your thoughts.

[Burgerbob]

Nice. It looks very slim.
How did you feel about nickel tuning slide? I have not played the nickel TS yet and would be happy to hear your thoughts.

It is very good- bit more focus, more tenor in the sound, but not bright or nasty. Very dense and quick responding. I also have a gold brass, they are both great for different things.

[octavposaune]

Nice. It looks very slim.
How did you feel about nickel tuning slide? I have not played the nickel TS yet and would be happy to hear your thoughts.

It is very good- bit more focus, more tenor in the sound, but not bright or nasty. Very dense and quick responding. I also have a gold brass, they are both great for different things.

I built that setup from Aidan, let me tell you that all Bach parts are not created equal. I own an artisan TS47N (nickel) and it doesn't play anything like the one I built Aidan, but I didnt assemble my factory one and Aidan's was carefully built by me. It's better to buy a few Artisan parts and retrofit an existing main TS slide than rely on a factory build at this point. It also takes forever to get parts from Bach. That nickel crook took 14 months to get! And I have outstanding orders at the moment coming up on one year out. Bach also sells the stepped ferrule to reverse their tuning slides which is what is on that tuning slide.

The temper of the metal in some of these slide crooks is also suspect, so having a competent tech working on your setup is important when using factory parts. On another note Hoelle also makes gold brass seamed crooks which are a nice option versus pure copper if that isn't your preference.

I don't remember if I did anything to this nickel TS crook but Aidan's gold brass TS stunk until it was heat treated.

I absolutely love how close in that original bent port axial wrap is. I used parts made on the original tooling from OE Thayer.

Speaking of that compact wrap I love the wider bends, its funny how some makers have open wraps with one or two sharp 90 degree bends in their designs. Totally missing the point. But then again, sometimes they don't cause playing issues either

Benn

[hiktro]

Nice. It looks very slim.
How did you feel about nickel tuning slide? I have not played the nickel TS yet and would be happy to hear your thoughts.

It is very good- bit more focus, more tenor in the sound, but not bright or nasty. Very dense and quick responding. I also have a gold brass, they are both great for different things.

Thank you, Aidan!
My current combination of gold brass bell and copper tuning slide sounds very rich, but a bit heavy in some cases.

[hiktro]

I built that setup from Aidan, let me tell you that all Bach parts are not created equal. I own an artisan TS47N (nickel) and it doesn't play anything like the one I built Aidan, but I didnt assemble my factory one and Aidan's was carefully built by me. It's better to buy a few Artisan parts and retrofit an existing main TS slide than rely on a factory build at this point. It also takes forever to get parts from Bach. That nickel crook took 14 months to get! And I have outstanding orders at the moment coming up on one year out. Bach also sells the stepped ferrule to reverse their tuning slides which is what is on that tuning slide.

The temper of the metal in some of these slide crooks is also suspect, so having a competent tech working on your setup is important when using factory parts. On another note Hoelle also makes gold brass seamed crooks which are a nice option versus pure copper if that isn't your preference.

I don't remember if I did anything to this nickel TS crook but Aidan's gold brass TS stunk until it was heat treated.

I absolutely love how close in that original bent port axial wrap is. I used parts made on the original tooling from OE Thayer.

Speaking of that compact wrap I love the wider bends, its funny how some makers have open wraps with one or two sharp 90 degree bends in their designs. Totally missing the point. But then again, sometimes they don't cause playing issues either

Benn

Benn, thank you for sharing all about Bach's tuning slide and your work is great! I'll talk to my tech about TS.

Off topic, but my tech is looking for a shop where he can buy 0.4mm and 0.5mm red brass sheets (C230) in 0.4mm and 0.5mm thickness to make trombone bells. It seems to be difficult to get red brass sheet in my country. He got a quote and it looks like he have to order 500kg worth lol.
Does anyone know where to buy small quantities?

Yellow brass bell he is making↓

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[octavposaune]

Hello Hiktro,

Yes, Mills usually require 500kg or larger orders for sheet metal. All the places I used to get metal from closed. I used closed manufacturers who would sell me small amounts.

Shipping metal coils would cost probably 1000s to Europe in any quantity. What country are you in?

Benn

[hiktro]

Hello Hiktro,

Yes, Mills usually require 500kg or larger orders for sheet metal. All the places I used to get metal from closed. I used closed manufacturers who would sell me small amounts.

Shipping metal coils would cost probably 1000s to Europe in any quantity. What country are you in?

Benn

Benn, thank you for telling me about this.
We are in Japan. I wish Yamaha would sell him sheet metal, but that does not seem to be possible.
Once he gets 500 kg worth of sheet metal, he will no longer have to worry about bell material.
We will try to look on the bright side