Screw bell damage from over torque

[MahlerMusic]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently borrowing a Rath Bass Trombone from another player. I haven't always been a fan of Rath, as I used to prefer the sound of a Conn 8HT and 88HY-0 when I was looking for a tenor. Initially, this bass trombone was in pretty rough shape, but after some TLC, it feels great and produces a fantastic sound. The tone is super dense with rich overtone color. It's not perfect, but it's made me reconsider my opinion about Rath.

The main issue I'm facing is with the screw bell. It seems like it has been over-torqued a few too many times. I'm wondering if this is a common problem with screw bells or if it might be related to the fact that the bell is a 750Y LT, which I assume stands for Light Weight.

Any insights or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Elow]

What is the damage? Ive seen a 2-piece Shires bell collapse at the seam from just the weight of the instrument being rested on a knee, if the metal is too thin there could definitely be some warping.

[tbonesullivan]

And people wonder why I have zero desire to have a screw bell trombone, and would even turn down a great deal to avoid having one.

[Matt K]

The worst case scenario is you just don't use it as a screwball, FWIW. So if you had a great deal on a great playing bell you could just, not unscrew it. It'll still fit in every case I've ever tried (provided the non-screbell version would fit).

[mbarbier]

That sounds odd- I've got a screw bell on quite a thin bell. I'm not overly cautious when I screw and unscrew it, but it feels like it would take quite a lack of caution to damage the bell that way.

Edit on seeing pictures: that's exactly what it looks like! WOW that seems like it would be difficult to do. I wonder if it got stuck or such and got torqued trying to remove it. Wild

[elmsandr]

Huh?

Plenty of bells get damaged and wrinkled at that point with or without the screw fitting. I don’t really understand, why do you think that it has specifically been over torqued?

Flare attachments are robust enough that horn players have managed it for decades… are horn players just that much smarter or mechanically inclined than trombone players?

Cheers,
Andy

[MahlerMusic]

Photos added. it just looks like most of the creases are in one direction. Really hard to photograph.

Maybe this bell was just not really taken care of.
Part of the great sound might be because of the screw bell but does it come with a cost?

[Burgerbob]

Oof. Definitely looks that way.

[Digidog]

Especially in the last picture, one can see twisted wrinkles in the metal that actually looks as if they are the result of too much torque used in attaching the bell flare. So much so that the person responsible must have used far excessive force to fasten it.

My advice on this: Take it to a tech with metal working skills and see what his/her opinion is and if he/she deems it to be a problem - a damage or an impairment. Or if you are in Rath-land (GB), reach out to the Rath workshop.