Bass Trombone Leadpipes in .547 slides

[qmcgillis]

Hi all,

I currently use an Edwards dual bore slide .547/.562 on my Corp Bach 42 and Stainless O.E Thayer bell section . I also recently had my Conn 83H converted with innovations valves and a modern valve wrap and I’m now looking for a slide to pair it with. Since I own this dual bore slide already and I love it on my tenor, I’m leaning towards just using this slide on my bass too. The only problem is finding a good leadpipe to pair this slide with on my bass set up…

Do bass leadpipes fit into to .547 slides at all? Are there some tenor leadpipes on the market that can accomplish a similar openness to a bass leadpipe (Maybe a T3?) I’m curious to see what people have done with their set ups and how it’s worked out. I also know there are bass trombones on the market that are dual bore slides in a .547/.567 configuration like the Thein BVD model.

Looking forward to hearing thoughts on this!

[JohnL]

You wouldn't be able to just take a bass leadpipe (i.e., one made to go into the a .562" tube) and put it into a .547" tube. It'd be like trying to put a 1/4" nut onto a 3/8" bolt.

That said, there's no reason a .547" pipe with a bass-sized venturi (i.e., .490"-.500" or thereabouts) couldn't be made. It's probably been done before.

[qmcgillis]

Right I was going there may have been some lead pipes out there specifically for dual bore slides like this one. This slide was likely never intended to be played on a bass trombone, but I don’t think that means it can’t work. My Sterling silver T1 leadpipe is not going to work on a bass setup. And before I go buying all the leadpipes that “could” work I’d like to hear some proposals. I’m sure there are those out there who use a .547/.562 dual bore on their bass trombones.

[UATrombone]

Conn 547/562 dual-bore tenor slide (SL4762) includes three interchangeable leadpipes (S, R and M) which are standard for their SL4747 single-bore slide too. So, they are not bass leadpipes.
For their bass slides Conn make other three interchangeable leadpipes (B, C and D).

[Matt K]

When I use a 547/562 on my bass, I use a Shires 2 at the moment, though I have my sights on getting an MV42 or a Shires 1.5. However, I also adjust the mouthpiece and shank and an SB106/SBI/I10 works great with the tighter pipe. If you have a tighter backbore, a more open pipe will probably work better than what I have on my setup.

Something you might want to consider the M/K drawing George Roberts pipe that they scaled down for tenor: https://www.mkdrawing.com/product/tromb ... or-nickel/

I've honestly been tempted to try one of these myself over the MV but I have yet to put in an order for anything b/c I'm not doing much bass at the moment and am prioritizing smaller projects. (I'm like 95% done with my smallbore setups if King would get me the tenon parts I ordered in May of last year!)

There ARE a few factory dual bore 547/562 out there like the Thein BVD. I believe Olds may have made one too. You aren't likely to find the latter pipes available alone but you might be able to order the former right from Thein. That said, Edwards and Shires definitely have put some thought into using these with their bass bell sections, so I wouldn't assume outright that a given leadpipe would work better for tenor than bass, per se. The specific bell section might work better with one pipe vs. another, but a 2 is a pretty safe bet for both bass AND tenor, in my experience.

To give a more extreme example: The Conn 32H replica pipe is offered in 500 and 508 bores. I have tried it in MANY trombones, including a King 500/508, a (mostly) King 500/525, a Shires 508/525 (large bore bell section), a Shires 508/508, and a Shires 500/500. It works pretty well in ALL of them. I also have a Conn 52H pipe that is stock for a 525/547 horn, but it works great in 525 trombones and even in a Wessex alto trombone that I have.

Or on the other end of the spectrum, the players (among them Jay Friedman) who play 50B slide on a 42 bell; that leadpipe clearly is not a tenor pipe, but still can work great.

[qmcgillis]

This is great! I’ll look into all of these for sure. I think what I’m looking for specifically is a more open feeling and a warmer tone quality. When I switch my slide to the bass with my T1 leadpipe it’s actually pretty good. But the issue is the sound has a lot of core to it and it’s very responsive. While I love this on my tenor set up I need a warmer sound on the bass set up and something that makes it easier to play less directional and more encompassing. I used to own an edwards B502 Rotax with a dual bore slide and I absolutely loved it. It was a big set up for me though but I was able to achieve the warmth that I was looking for. This bass set up is undoubtedly smaller but the right blow can get the best of both worlds I’m sure.

[elmsandr]

These are variables that I am definitely not going to think too long on or I will shortly end up with a draw bench in my garage…..

I also have very intentionally avoided gaging the different taper rates of leadpipes… a thing I don’t know is if tenor and bass pipes share the same rate of taper, but just with different venturi and final diameters. I, too, would love to work with some tooling and determine if you truly want a larger bass venturi, or if you want a different taper rate.

Too much fun, have to turn away before I generate a project for myself…
Andy

[Burgerbob]

Checking a Shires B1 I have, if you lopped off the last 3 inches it would measure at .546 OD.

[Matt K]

This is great! I’ll look into all of these for sure. I think what I’m looking for specifically is a more open feeling and a warmer tone quality. When I switch my slide to the bass with my T1 leadpipe it’s actually pretty good. But the issue is the sound has a lot of core to it and it’s very responsive. While I love this on my tenor set up I need a warmer sound on the bass set up and something that makes it easier to play less directional and more encompassing. I used to own an edwards B502 Rotax with a dual bore slide and I absolutely loved it. It was a big set up for me though but I was able to achieve the warmth that I was looking for. This bass set up is undoubtedly smaller but the right blow can get the best of both worlds I’m sure.

Were you the one inquiring about leadpipes yesterday to me? Not to oversell what I have but the 3GS pipe actually might be a good fit... 1 is pretty compact, 3 is the most "open". Shorter pipes tend to compensate for the openness by adding a touch of compactness or centerdness, and the gold material might make it warmer too.

Aidan's suggestion about cutting up a bass pipe might work too. Or some combination of that and sanding it down. A shorter pipe will be more compact, though, so I'd probably start with a bass pipe that was more middle-of-the-road or open if I were feeling that adventurous.

[Thrawn22]

If there's enough meat around the diameter you could have a bass pipe shaved down to fit a .547. I have Bach 36 pipes shaved down to fit my small bores.

[mrdeacon]

I did some Googling and the Ben Van Dijk .547/.562 slide comes with a S1L leadpipe. Which I think is a tenor leadpipe. You can buy one at Houghton Horns.

https://houghtonhorns.com/products/thei ... _0NV71-saJ