TromboneChat

What is (are) the best close wrap design(s)? I have tried a xeno close wrap and a courtois 420 close wrap they seemed nice(?)

Not a direct answer but this thread might be worth a read if you haven’t seen it

viewtopic.php?t=39274

I have no idea if it's functionally better or worse than any other design, but the best *looking* is the new Shires Rejano.

Yamaha!

nateaff wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:18 am I have no idea if it's functionally better or worse than any other design, but the best *looking* is the new Shires Rejano.

can't agree more bro

As far as I have tried: Yamaha closed wrap.

nateaff wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:18 am I have no idea if it's functionally better or worse than any other design, but the best *looking* is the new Shires Rejano.

Hard pass . That one is definitely form over function. "Oh, you wanted to tune your F attachment? Too bad!"

More important than the wrap is the valve. I played a King 4BF, Conn 88H, and a Yamaha 682. All played better than any Bach 42B (conventional wrap) that I tried. I'm currently playing a Holton TR-680 with a very "tight" flat wrap and it's more open than a 42B.

All that said, I often liked the King wrap with the two tuning slides (one for tune and one for E pull), and the Yamaha wrap has fewer tight bends than any other "closed" wrap.

Yeah the best closed wrap tenor is probably a 3BF!

In terms of wrap design itself, I just love this style of classic German wrap. It looks very elegant, and it also tends to play very nice, somewhere between the good open wraps and the good closed wraps. Also has the condensation collecting in the tuning slide, which makes it really easy and practical to empty (I enjoy any wrap that has that feature)




In terms of which closed wrap instrument I've tried that I loved most, that would have to be the Courtois AC440, which is based on and tries to capture the Elkhart 88H feel (and comes quite close!). Really good horn. If I ever buy an American style modern trombone again and looked at buying new, that would be a strong contender.

Another vote for the Courtois AC440! I had a couple days of trying a wide variety of horns, both at the American Trombone Workshop and at Baltimore Brass Co. I kept coming back to the Courtois, even when they were plenty of Shires, Thein, etc. instruments to try out. So responsive and fun to play!

(Related, but: does anyone know similar the B&S Challenger version of the 88H is to the Courtois? I’ve seen one for sale recently, and if they’re similar, I may have to bite the bullet…)

Obligatory "the wrap doesn't meaningfully affect how the horn plays" comment. That said, given the choice on the same horn I'd always go for closed wrap entirely because it doesn't stick out as far.

My favorite closed-wrap horns (in terms of how they play, not how they look!):

Yamaha YSL-882
Shires Rejano
King 3BF and 607
Elkhart Conn 72H
Elkhart Conn 88H

Aesthetically, my favorite closed wrap by far is the Williams pigtail wrap.

Im biased towards Bach because I played a 42B closed wrap for many years. That being said, a LT42BG or a Yamaha YSL-882UG would be my two choices for closed wrap.

The wrap is an odd primary criterion. The Rejano is still an open wrap. Anything you don't have to twirl to get the condensation to drain is open wrap. At least that's my definition, because it seems that's the big advantage of open wrap.

Anyway, my favorites are:

88h
79h
I guess I have to include 3b+F, although I haven't really had it long enough to say.

This would be my favorite traditional wrap tenor

(Yes, I'm a little biased..)

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:01 pm In terms of wrap design itself, I just love this style of classic German wrap. It looks very elegant, and it also tends to play very nice, somewhere between the good open wraps and the good closed wraps. Also has the condensation collecting in the tuning slide, which makes it really easy and practical to empty (I enjoy any wrap that has that feature)

I love the aesthetic, but traditional American style open wraps don't have any condensation problem at all. It drains through the rotor.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 5:03 pm

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:01 pm In terms of wrap design itself, I just love this style of classic German wrap. It looks very elegant, and it also tends to play very nice, somewhere between the good open wraps and the good closed wraps. Also has the condensation collecting in the tuning slide, which makes it really easy and practical to empty (I enjoy any wrap that has that feature)

I love the aesthetic, but traditional American style open wraps don't have any condensation problem at all. It drains through the rotor.

That's not always true though. Traditional, fully-open wraps with a traditional valve* do normally drain through the rotor, but those usually have a 180-degree port. Open wraps with two 90-degree ports sometimes have less optimal draining because of the required extra bend.

*Open wraps with non-traditional valves usually have tubing that goes slightly lower past the valve before returning to it, where water can also get trapped. That was certainly the case on my Hagmann open wrap.

In any case, I wouldn't consider that German wrap to be an open wrap. More like a closed wrap that's leaning towards open?