TromboneChat

Since Bruce is always plugging these, I figured that I'd post them up here for easier reference.

Play each five bar phrase in one position, so, bars 1-5 in 7th, 6-10 in 6th, etc. For a maximum workout, play these WITHOUT taking the mouthpiece away from your chops to breathe. Leave your chops set in playing position and breathe through your nose, if it's not stuffed up. Each dotted half note should be held for as long as is comfortable. If you miss the top note, try that pattern again, once or twice. If you still can't hit it, move on to something else, and come back to this another time.

Walter -
For some reason I've been unable to download this exercise.
I use an iMac OS X.4.11
Any help would be appreciated.
Bob C

Not sure why you're having trouble. When you click on the link in the first post, what happens? Anything? Might be in your Downloads folder. At any rate, I've emailed it to you.

I like this because once you look at it you don't need a written copy.

I like "exercises" that you can just play without having to dig out the written material. Without paper in front of me it is easier to concentrate on making the notes musical. If i never play the low E I'll still get a good workout!

Walt -
I haven't received it yet (12/13/12), but I recently changed my email to : [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url].
Would you try again?
Thanks, Bob Clemons

Walt -- what software did you do that in?

Do you have this exercise written out but extended to High F?

Quote from: TigerBone on Jan 13, 2013, 02:54PMWalt -- what software did you do that in?

Looks like Finale

Quote from: trombone addict on Jan 13, 2013, 04:29PMDo you have this exercise written out but extended to High F?

Don't you think you could figure this out?  Back before the Hunsberger book came out all you could get was the photocopy of Remington's manuscript.  The range exercise only went to Bb  .  We just added a partial at a time until we got to F.

Just realized these are basically arpeggios.....my mistake. 

TigerBone, I use Sibelius for all my notation.

Hi-

I really like this exercise- especially incorporating the low notes- but if this is really for beginners I have a long way to go...
What I'd like to know is how to avoid the "extra" partial (Ab in first position)- so how to "skip over" it. I can nearly do it sometimes but it always seems to be there to some extent.
Is someone able to explain the technique? I know all of you can do it, but how do you describe it to people who can't?
Thanks-

Rob.

Quote from: WaltTrombone on Apr 22, 2012, 06:43AMSince Bruce is always plugging these, I figured that I'd post them up here for easier reference.

Play each five bar phrase in one position, so, bars 1-5 in 7th, 6-10 in 6th, etc. For a maximum workout, play these WITHOUT taking the mouthpiece away from your chops to breathe. Leave your chops set in playing position and breathe through your nose, if it's not stuffed up. Each dotted half note should be held for as long as is comfortable. If you miss the top note, try that pattern again, once or twice. If you still can't hit it, move on to something else, and come back to this another time.

This is an excellent beginning to a series of exercises that could free you from being stuck in the middle-lower register. I would strongly advise anyone who wants to have a really easy high register to take this idea and run with it from all directions and in all partials. A thorough version of my own take on it is in the "Harmonics" chapter of my book, Time, Balance and Connections.

Several easily understood variations follow.

1-Include the 7th partial in the exercise. Try to make all of the partials "in tune" by using your slide. (Hint, hint)

2-Continue up into all of the higher partials that you can reach. This ends up "arpeggios" of an extended dominant 7th chord instead of triads.

3-Do not always start in 7th position. Start in any position and go in both directions on the slide. For example, I might start in 3rd position, then 2nd and 1st, then 4th through 7th. Or vice-versa.

4-Do not always start on the same partial.

5-Do not always play up from the starting note. For example, you could start on say 2nd position and play the partials below.



Then play the same exercise in 1st, 3rd, 4th etc.

Go both ways through all reasonable slide positions. (I eliminate 5th, 6th and 7th position once I get up into partials where I never use them.)



Or...only go up.



Or do them in other time signatures starting on other subdivisions.



You can also do them using other articulations, and once you get the hang of it you can do them faster as well. I most often do them with no articulation after the initial attack, Carmine Caruso style. (Hint, hint #2)





The possibilities are endless, limited only by your own imagination and how far you've gotten in the chops department. They work down into the trigger notes/fake notes/pedals/double pedals etc. and up as high as you can go. Try starting in extreme ranges, but only ones where you feel at least moderately strong and well balanced.

Oh...and do them in good time. Not with a metronome, just tapping your foot.

They work.

Bet on it.

Later...

S.

There was a logic behind Remington's Security exercise.

In 7th position there is a little more resistance and this helps hit the higher note.  I wouldn't believe this if I did not experience it.

Sam's exercises work great for maintenance.  For that matter, maybe they will work for developing the high range.  Try everything, use what works -- for you.

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 10, 2015, 08:57AMThere was a logic behind Remington's Security exercise.

In 7th position there is a little more resistance and this helps hit the higher note.  I wouldn't believe this if I did not experience it.

Sam's exercises work great for maintenance.  For that matter, maybe they will work for developing the high range.  Try everything, use what works -- for you.

More resistance in 7th? More resistance than in any other position?

Not if you're playing it right there isn't. Not consistently measurably, not by the body anyway. His students were all playing 88Hs w/Remington m'pces and tight wraps/small rotors, so trigger notes would provide even more resistance. Why not have them play say trigger C after every positional repetition? ? Or if that's too low, trigger E? There'd be plenty more resistance that way, right? Hell, maybe everybody would magically jump up to  and above.

Sorry, this sounds to me like just another trombone-related urban myth. Myth over matter. Why not practice high range in a tight practice mute? Or on the m'pce with a finger over the end of the shank to provide maximum possible resistance.
Quote
Double high Bb, here I come!!!
Not.

Why the 2nd partial notes after every repetition? Especially if Remington did indeed tell his students to leave the m'pce on and breathe through their nose, which is the first I've ever heard of this. To make sure that they didn't "cheat"...use a shift of some sort as the exercises went higher. He seemed to think that he was training exclusively orchestral trombonists (I wonder what he would think of Jim Pugh's career, among many other Remington-trained American styles specialists) and keeping the 2nd partial full sounding...which means keeping a fairly large "reed" (the amount of lip) in the m'pce...is an important characteristic of most post-'50 orchestral players' timbral approach. Not so much for many American-styles players, especially those that use smaller rims and horns.

Carmine Caruso had an exercise...he called it "Harmonics"...that invariably went something like this:



Or this:



No tongue except the initial attack of each phrase, down through all 7 positions and adding notes on top as they became available. I did it this way for about 7 years, and it helped me to achieve a secure high range up to about  b or a little higher. Professionally 'secure." After that? I had notes a 3rd or so higher, but they were not really "secure." Good for effect only, as far as I was concerned. Within a year of changing my approach to that exercise as I sketch out above, my top note went up to about D above the treble clef and my usable, "secure" range was at least a fifth higher than it had been before making that change.

Why?

Because I was no longer what the Bel Canto teachers call "hauling chest." That is, starting on higher notes and not necessarily bringing every exercise back to the 2nd partial allowed me to selectively lighten up my lip/reed. No so much that the sound got thin or airy, but sufficiently for me to have more (and easier) high range. Had I wanted to be a real high note specialist I suppose I could gave done that too, but in my opinion only at the expense of how I really want to play as a general rule. Changing the starting point/bottom notes, taking the same exercise into and through the pedals and doing them in all four directions...up, down, down going up and up going down...eventually was the most important reason that I developed a total range on almost all sizes of lower brass well in excess of 5 octaves, a large factor in my being able to double tuba and bass trombone fairly well and and helped me to be able to use widely varying rim sizes.

Things progress, Mr. Guttman. Sometimes they progress faster than most people can use. So it goes. Carmine Caruso was an example of that. Through all of his 50+ years of teaching he got almost no respect or attention from  mainstream academic quarters, only from working musicians. You could say the same for Donald Reinhardt. "Better safe than sorry" the conservatories say, rather than "Nothing ventured, nothing gained." That why they're called "conservatories." Conservative to a fault. But things changed anyway. Always and forever. Bet on it.

Later...

S.

Actually, Sam, I do  run these exercises down through the single and double trigger ranges.  Not to build high register, though.  I use them so that more of the notes on trigger sound like the notes without.  There are some "stupid human tricks" where the trigger notes can make some very easy slide patterns.  I now have passable Bb, A, and Ab on the F side (at least they are comparable to my open notes, however bad they may be).

I have the Colin Advanced Lip Flexibilities, which my first teacher told me was garbage and which you seem to quote often.  When I first got it the notes in the middle of the first exercise were only in my dreams.  Now I have a hope of playing them.

I like your exercises. 

But just like Remington's, they must be practiced intelligently.  There is no horn, mouthpiece, or exercise that will take a kid who sounds like a wounded moose with a top note of Eb above the bass staff and suddenly he's doing the "7 C's" (which for us is 7 Bbs).  Range, tone, timing; all take work.

Like Sam said, try adding that 7th partial (the 1st position Ab, 2nd -G, etc) to the pattern. Nobody says you have to go up that high, either. Make up your own patterns. Connect the high register with a more moderate register, and like Sam said, it won't hurt to approach it starting up high and working down, as well as how it's written.


Sam, I don't think Remington had his students play these breathing only through their nose. My Remington experience is all secondhand, but my teachers never had ME do that, at any rate. I have my students try it that way to minimize shifts, and to help them maintain the feel of the higher setting, instead of starting to try and find that setting after taking a breath/making a way too big shift. The second partial notes are my addition as well, both to encourage making the smallest shift you can get away with, and to help relax and massage the chops after to top notes.

Sam's and my teacher, Jack Nowinski (a Remington student), had me play the arpeggio up on a breath, take a quick breath, and play the arpeggio down on that breath.  The idea is to keep the embouchure as close as possible during the breath so you have practice hitting the high note clean.

Note that the Hunsberger version of the exercise has the 3rd and 2nd partial on the way down also.  Good idea.  I do that too.

Sam has had the benefit of a lot more prestigious teachers in his life and he does a lot of experimentation.  I have no doubt he has figured out his own best way to do things.

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 10, 2015, 11:11AMActually, Sam, I do  run these exercises down through the single and double trigger ranges.  Not to build high register, though.  I use them so that more of the notes on trigger sound like the notes without.  There are some "stupid human tricks" where the trigger notes can make some very easy slide patterns.  I now have passable Bb, A, and Ab on the F side (at least they are comparable to my open notes, however bad they may be).

I have the Colin Advanced Lip Flexibilities, which my first teacher told me was garbage and which you seem to quote often.
No. Never paid much attention to Colin's stuff.  I learned the Remington flexibilities and ran with them.

QuoteWhen I first got it the notes in the middle of the first exercise were only in my dreams.  Now I have a hope of playing them.

I like your exercises. 

But just like Remington's, they must be practiced intelligently.  There is no horn, mouthpiece, or exercise that will take a kid who sounds like a wounded moose with a top note of Eb above the bass staff and suddenly he's doing the "7 C's" (which for us is 7 Bbs).  Range, tone, timing; all take work.

Double High C in 37 Years.

My next book.

Not.

S.

Quote from: WaltTrombone on Jan 10, 2015, 02:06PMLike Sam said, try adding that 7th partial (the 1st position Ab, 2nd -G, etc) to the pattern. Nobody says you have to go up that high, either. Make up your own patterns. Connect the high register with a more moderate register, and like Sam said, it won't hurt to approach it starting up high and working down, as well as how it's written.


Sam, I don't think Remington had his students play these breathing only through their nose. My Remington experience is all secondhand, but my teachers never had ME do that, at any rate.
I never heard of it either, and I was studying lower brass in Ithaca when Remington was still in ascendency at Eastman and only a couple of hours' drive away.  It sounds to me like someone conflated (or maybe better, confused) Remington's stuff and Carmine Caruso's approach. Not that it's a bad idea...it isn't, and I use it regularly with Remington-influenced exercises.


QuoteI have my students try it that way to minimize shifts, and to help them maintain the feel of the higher setting, instead of starting to try and find that setting after taking a breath/making a way too big shift. The second partial notes are my addition as well, both to encourage making the smallest shift you can get away with, and to help relax and massage the chops after to top notes.

You write "The second partial notes are my addition as well..." You mean what you posted is not what Remington taught? I wouldn't know, myself.

S.

The nose breathing bit and the second partial stuff are my additions, Sam.

Quote from: WaltTrombone on Jan 12, 2015, 08:11AMThe nose breathing bit and the second partial stuff are my additions, Sam.

QuoteInfidel!!!

Treason!!!

HERETIC!!!
Nice work, actually. Doesn't bother me a bit. Makes perfect sense. Just thought I'd beat the locksteppers to the punch. 

Later...

S.

Actually, the Hunsberger version of the Remington exercises has them also.

Worked for me.

Actually, the Hunsberger version of the Remington exercises has them also.

Worked for me.