Transposing for a G Pitched Bass Trombone

[Zandit75]

Hey everyone, I learned last night that our brass band is receiving an old G pitched Bass Trombone from a deceased estate within the next couple of weeks.
I don't have any details on age or brand at this time, but apparently this person was the only person in the history of our band to play the G Bass Trom.
Hopefully I'll become the second person to use it in the band.
To prepare for this, can someone advise an easy way to transpose my existing Bass Trom music for the G Bass Trom?
Perhaps there is a slide position chart available too?
Thanks in advance!

[JohnL]

G bass reads concert pitch bass clef. You just need to learn the proper slide positions and partials to get the notes.

Not sure where you would find a slide position chart. Maybe this will help:
http://itsabear.com/Olds_Docs/P24G_Facts.pdf

The position chart has a row for when the G valve is engaged. You'll have to ignore the position lines (they're for a regular Bb trombone); you'd play Gb in second position rather than flat 2nd, F in third rather than 3.5-ish, and so on. The chart only shows 6 positions, but you should be able to figure out the notes for 7th.

[BGuttman]

You will also need to learn to negotiate the handle. Your arms are not long enough to reach 6th position let alone 7th on a G bass. Take it from me -- I already have one.

I don't know if you really want to play the G Bass in public. Most of them were friction fit. Watch the parade scene in the beginning of "Brassed Off" to see what happens on the march with a friction fit bass.

Note that a G bass will probably be quite small bore. Mine is "large" at 0.525" (13.3 mm). Many are more like sub-12.7 mm. Also, the G Bass was often used in bands playing High Pitch. You may find it's more an Ab than a G.

Some G basses had a trigger in D, but most Brass Band basses did not.

If you play blastissimo bass trombone, you may find the results on a G to be rather disappointing. The sound will be harsh and you won't be able to "power out" low notes like you do now.

By all means get familiar with the G Bass, but consider it a historical anomaly rather than a possible improvement.

[Zandit75]

Thanks for the quick responses guys, most appreciated. I should have realised it was just a matter of different positions, not transposing.
As BGuttman mentioned, I'm not going to look at this as a full time playing instrument. I'm only a small guy to start with at 5'6", so this is going to be comical to see how this works!

If you play blastissimo bass trombone, you may find the results on a G to be rather disappointing.

I'm not really understanding you here....Is there another way of playing apart from Blastissimo???!!

[Zandit75]

Here is a photo of the G Bass from our band archives.

if anyone can assist with identification before I get it in my hands, it would be appreciated.
Our band used to play almost exclusively Besson(Boosey & Hawkes) instruments, so I'm guessing it will be one of those.

[torobone]

You can figure out the positions easily, keeping in mind the 1st position notes are G-D-G-B-D etc. In some British marches, the G bass looked spectacular on parade if playing a march in flat keys. The Db to Ab combo meant the instrument was 8 feet long in 7th for the Ab.

There was an attempt to resurrect the G with a large bore G-D version in the 70s. Yours is not one of these. It might easily sound close to a dentist's drill while being played. That said, there is an interesting technical challenge facing you. I found an old Boosey & Co one, dated to 1913 in a band cupboard. It was fun as a challenge, but not playable in a modern band.

When our brass band replaced the original set of B&H instruments in the mid-70s with a new Yamaha set, our band manager stated that the first instrument he sold of the old set was the G bass.

[LeTromboniste]

People have to get over the small bore. The fact they used smaller bores in earlier times doesn't mean they weren't able to make a good sound. They knew how to not make their instrument sound like a "dentist's drill". I have a couple of turn off the century tenors that are extremely small. Trust me, they can have a massive sound if played the right way. There are other things than the bore that define tone. There's a common misconception from trombonists who have never heard of played one that sackbuts, with such tiny bores and bells, must sound very bright, yet the reality is exactly the opposite.

The one thing is you can't blow into and play these older instruments the same way you play a modern bass and expect good results. Let the instrument itself tell you how it wants to be played and let it guide you. You'll find its a fun new way of looking at your instrument and at the music you play. And while you can't expect to duplicate your usual tone and the usual blend you get with your colleagues, I really don't think they are "unplayable" in modern groups.

[Splendour]

Mouthpieces - It may take a small shank or a medium shank mouthpiece.

I have a couple of old G basses that get occasional use, and I quite like the sound I can get with a Wick 4AM, but it does limit me to a fairly stable sound. A Wick Heritage 6BS works well with the smaller bore of the two allowing more attack. If your tenor troms are playing modern medium or large bore instruments these sort of mouthpieces may be best to help you blend.

The G bass however sound best to me when playing with old Hawkes an Son mouthpieces, (marked GT or E). You have to work harder for a rich round sound, but the brightness and edge matches up really well with a section of small bore tenors.

All that said, it is definitely an instrument of it's time, suited to marches, Holst, and the Wright and Round band journal. Outside of that I'd much rather have a modern Bb/F in my hands.

[Zandit75]

Finally got an update for you all regarding this instrument, and it turns out that the old trom being returned to the band was not actually a G, but a seriously old Bb Bass trom, with no attachment.
I'll post up some photos later tonight when I get back home, but it's in serious need of a spruce up, if its even possible, I'm not sure.
It has no identifying marks that I can see anywhere on the trom, except for what may be a hand scrawled mark on the bell, but it may be just one of those random injuries instruments pick up over the years that just happen to look like something else.
It has a taper join for the slide to the bell section, no counterweight, no spit valve in the slide, no tuning slide, and it has a knob(for want of a better word) on the final bend leading to the bell that looks like what you would normally see on the end of the slide to protect it. There is also no cross brace in a convenient position to rest your left thumb. The first cross brace is more than an inch back from where it probably should be.
A Dennis Wick 4AL mouthpiece was fitted to the trom when it came in.
The finish is in bad condition, with no shiny lacquer visible, but you can see what looks like brush strokes on the brass. Was lacquer applied with a brush in the old days?
Talking with some of the more senior members of the band last night, we're still pretty sure there is a G Bass trom somewhere in storage, so we'll have another look for that.
More updates to come!

[Zandit75]

OK, looks like we have an identification from a Facebook page already.
It's a German or Russian Military Marching Tenor Trom, just with a 9.5 " bell!

[LeTromboniste]

Yes, German trombones typically have a more conical profile, with a somewhat smaller starting bore, dual bore slide, no tuning slide so little to no cylindrical segment in the bell section, and a wider bell. So a 9.5" bell is not uncommon on such a tenor.

This one looks in pretty bad shape. Overhaul to make it good again is most probably not worth doing as it would cost more than the value of the instrument. Those are a dime a dozen on German eBay and classifieds sites.