TromboneChat

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:27 pm**

I’m just a novice Bass Trombone player (primarily a tuba player in a former life), but I’ve been curious whether there are some/lots of bass players who don’t also play tenor.

It strikes me that lots of tenor players probably don’t play bass, but do most of the bass players double up? Or in the rare instances where you need to play a non-bass part, do you just play it on the bass bone?

Just curious what others have experienced — thanks for indulging me!

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:37 pm**

Most bass trombone players (ALL I know) start on tenor and switched to bass for some reason when they where ready physically. Some are doublers today, the rest probably have a tenor hidden in the closet to play if they want to. Anyone started on bass?

/Tom

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:08 pm**

That’s a good point. I actually have never played tenor (more than playing ~6 months of trombone in fifth grade before switching to tuba). I’ve played tuba for 20 years, but was always interested in bass bone, so I bought one and started learning.

I’m trying to decide whether I would be served by buying a tenor as well. My thoughts are that it might help my bass playing, and also give me more playing opportunities overall. That being said, maybe I should just stick with the bass since I also play tuba still and I don’t want to get too far away from the overall larger tuba/bass bone mouthpiece size and shape.

Just wanted to get thoughts from others too...

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:16 pm**

I have a tenor (In fact: two). For certain rare moments...

But already the first trombone I bought was a bass trombone. And so I have been on bass ever since.
When I have to play higher parts I use my bass anyway. Just a matter of sound...
Two years ago I bought a 354 for big band. Sleeps in the trunk of my car. Used it 5 oder 6 times, because the tiny little thing just does't feel right.

When there is no need for a bass trombone, I show up with my french horn!

In my youth I wanted to learn how to play the horn, but these instruments back then where out of reach financially... So I seettled on trombone, because it was available, and stuck with it. But thanks to years of hard work, the horn finally came along - and even the first concerts (one even solo: It was a messy nightmare, but I had promised to a friend) on my double horn.
But most of the time in public I still play the bass trombone (there just are not many bass trombonists available), but I hardly practice it anymore - except three day before the concerts... To my surprise, the horn embouchure supports my trombone embouchure very effectively - not vice versa.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:43 pm**

I am also a (mostly at this point) ex tuba player. In the past year I got the tuba out for only one (holiday) event, and only because the guy who normally plays for that couldn't make it.

I did not start on tenor, and in fact have never had a formal lesson on trombone (or tuba, or any brass instrument). I have an Olds straight tenor that I practice on from time to time, but have never used in a performance. In the community band I'm in, it's fairly common to have at least a couple of pieces with no 3rd part (never mind a real bass part). I manage them on the bass. The bass seems a very "natural" fit for me, coming from the tuba side of things. You may feel the same way.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:57 pm**

I started on tenor and only recently started playing bass. I still use my small bores for things like pep band when using something big and heavy is unappealing. Other than that I haven't had too much trouble playing the higher parts with my bass. It's mostly an issue of sound and what the director or band is looking for. In my case if they don't need a bass then I move to a tenor unless there is a need for another euphonium.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:34 pm**

Right before high school I switched from Trumpet to Euphonium, and at the same time starting learning trombone on a Bass Trombone. I didn't play Tenor regularly until around my second year at my University. Right now I'm still mainly a Bass Trombone player, but I play Tenor once in a while for gigs.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:20 pm**

I am a bass and do not double. I feel like I don’t have enough time to do all the things I need to work on to play bass

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:34 pm**

I normally use my bass for everything now, even when I have to play 1st part, but that is because I have only one trombone, and I am just an amateur playing in a band that does not care much about blending. I just change between mouthpieces when I need to play high or change color, but I am working on playing high reliably enough with my main bass mouthpiece.

I started on tenor trombone in 6th grade and played it through junior high school, but spiraled downward in high school, and when I had to buy (and could afford to buy) my first horn, I already considered myself a bass player, so I bought a bass.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:57 pm**

I played my high school's Conn 72H bass one year in high school jazz band back in the 70s and liked it a lot. My primary horn in high school and a year at a conservatory of music was a .547 concert tenor which I still play. Since then I picked up a pair of small bores (2B and 3B) and a Holton TR-180 bass. I love them all. Strickly an amateur, though. I've played both small bore and bass in big bands, medium and large bores in orchestras, all three sizes in community bands. I will add that even on the 2B I play a DE equivalent to a Bach 5, no small mouthpieces for me.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:17 pm**

GBP wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:20 pm I am a bass and do not double. I feel like I don’t have enough time to do all the things I need to work on to play bass

I feel the same way, good perspective.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:18 pm**

Lots of good anecdotes here - thanks all.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:06 pm**

I do think bass players should be competent at tenor and vice versa even if it's just competent enough to play a quintet gig or sub in the third chair of a big band from time to time. You'll instantly get many more calls just being being able to play both!

Just to add something else... I can only think of a handful of dedicated bass players in the LA freelance scene and none of them get as much work as they used to do to them only playing bass.

Most of the former bass only players in town all picked up Contra, Cimbasso, bass trumpet, Euphonium and/or tuba in addition to bass! If you want to be able to freelance you've got to be able to play every low brass instrument under the sun, and be able to play them all equally well!

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:17 pm**

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:06 pm I do think bass players should be competent at tenor and vice versa even if it's just competent enough to play a quintet gig or sub in the third chair of a big band from time to time. You'll instantly get many more calls just being being able to play both!

Just to add something else... I can only think of a handful of dedicated bass players in the LA freelance scene and none of them get as much work as they used to do to them only playing bass.

Most of the former bass only players in town all picked up Contra, Chimbasso, bass trumpet, Euphonium and/or tuba in addition to bass! If you want to be able to freelance you've got to be able to play every low brass instrument under the sun, and be able to play them all equally well!

Just my curiosity: does the demand for Cimbasso in an average large USA city satisfies the price of it? Even from Wessex it seems to be very expensive.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:22 pm**

Outside of a few operas, I think the demand for cimbasso approaches zero.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:27 pm**

sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:17 pm
Just my curiosity: does the demand for Cimbasso in an average large USA city satisfies the price of it? Even from Wessex it seems to be very expensive.

No, it doesn't. Even a dedicated opera trombone doesn't get enough Cimbasso to justify buying one. The LA studio scene is another matter entirely. Some film composers will write a scene for 8 Cimbassos and you'd better be ready to play one!

Cimbasso can be a blast to learn, and if you want to play one then it's a worthwhile purchase.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:54 pm**

I started out on tenor, started playing bass occasionally in college, and now consider myself primarily a bass player who doubles. At various times I’ve played mainly bass, at other times mainly tenor. I believe they complement each other, like cross-training.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:00 pm**

Even if I could get away with it, I'm not sure I would limit myself to just bass trombone. I enjoy everything else too much.

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:47 pm**

I think doubling requires time. Time to put into all the horns. I could play tenor in your average community band without a problem. My musical goals aren’t that, however. I am trying to play in the absolute best ensembles I can get into. The orchestra that I play regularly in is doing Mahler 5. I feel like I would not be able to hold my own in the ensemble if I were splitting up my practice time. Of course, everyone has different goals and expectations for their music. Do what helps you improve and do the thins you want to musically.

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:20 am**

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:27 pm
sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:17 pm
Just my curiosity: does the demand for Cimbasso in an average large USA city satisfies the price of it? Even from Wessex it seems to be very expensive.
No, it doesn't. Even a dedicated opera trombone doesn't get enough Cimbasso to justify buying one. The LA studio scene is another matter entirely. Some film composers will write a scene for 8 Cimbassos and you'd better be ready to play one!

Cimbasso can be a blast to learn, and if you want to play one then it's a worthwhile purchase.

On a side note, I wish we stopped calling that a cimbasso, because it actually has little to do with an actual cimbasso, it's really just a valved bass trombone in F, and it unfortunately leads to a lot of confusion.

But anyway yeah, that instrument however we call it probably gets played more worldwide nowadays than it ever has (and a lot of t he time, on parts not written for it), and it's still very little. Very much of a nice market. Unless you play in a band/orchestra that plays their own unique arrangements taylored to their instrumentation or hope to be a Hollywood session player, there just isn't much to play.

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:31 am**

GBP wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:47 pm I think doubling requires time. Time to put into all the horns. I could play tenor in your average community band without a problem. My musical goals aren’t that, however. I am trying to play in the absolute best ensembles I can get into. The orchestra that I play regularly in is doing Mahler 5. I feel like I would not be able to hold my own in the ensemble if I were splitting up my practice time. Of course, everyone has different goals and expectations for their music. Do what helps you improve and do the thins you want to musically.

That’s definitely one of the things I’m thinking about - I don’t aspire to rise above the level of comm’y band guy on trombone, but I wondered whether developing some tenor chops would improve my bass playing as well (sort of like cross-training as mentioned above).

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:22 am**

I started out many years ago on Trumpet. In 6th grade changed to Tuba. In High School around Junior year learned Trombone to play in Jazz Band and picked up Bass my senior year. Played it in Jazz Band and switched from Tuba to Bass Bone in our area Youth Orchestra. Went to college as mostly a Bass Trombonist but still played a lot of Tuba. Went to grad school as a Bass Trombonist.

All that background to say, I have large and small bore Tenors that I maybe gig on once a year or so to remind me why I play Bass.

Right tool for the right job. When I taught lessons I always used my Bass or Tuba since I am most comfortable on either of them. I am equally comfortable playing in a B5 on Tuba or on Trombone (both Tuba and Trombone parts). Even have a Euph to play.

I think it has been said, having a knowledge of all of them and being competent just opens more doors.

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:29 am**

As I already mentioned above: I spend most of my practise time on (high) French Horn. That improved my embouchure, my air-support and my tone much more than the same amount of time spent on the trombone itself would have done.

I was very much in doubt about doubling before I finally grabbed the horn. But it did more good than wrong. To create a strong sound on the small mouthpiece, especially in the low register of the horn, makes things on the bass trombone a breeze: The overtones are comfortably wide apart, the resistance is much lower, the trombone gets a huge sound without screaming or drowning everybody in the orchestra. And it widens your musical horizon - not only because you hear the trombone section from the outside.

I definitely recommend ist - if you have a stable level you always can rely on, at least sufficient for the things you are ususally asked to play.

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:50 am**

I have a hard enough time just trying to play bass!!!!

Eric

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:46 am**

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:50 am I have a hard enough time just trying to play bass!!!!

Eric

me

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:05 pm**

thatme wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:31 am
GBP wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:47 pm I think doubling requires time. Time to put into all the horns. I could play tenor in your average community band without a problem. My musical goals aren’t that, however. I am trying to play in the absolute best ensembles I can get into. The orchestra that I play regularly in is doing Mahler 5. I feel like I would not be able to hold my own in the ensemble if I were splitting up my practice time. Of course, everyone has different goals and expectations for their music. Do what helps you improve and do the thins you want to musically.
That’s definitely one of the things I’m thinking about - I don’t aspire to rise above the level of comm’y band guy on trombone, but I wondered whether developing some tenor chops would improve my bass playing as well (sort of like cross-training as mentioned above).

What is it that you feel tenor playing will help improve that could not be done by focusing on the issue on bass?

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:07 pm**

GBP wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:05 pm
thatme wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:31 am That’s definitely one of the things I’m thinking about - I don’t aspire to rise above the level of comm’y band guy on trombone, but I wondered whether developing some tenor chops would improve my bass playing as well (sort of like cross-training as mentioned above).
A very fair question — not sure. Probably nothing, just one of those “you don’t know what you don’t know” type things.

What is it that you feel tenor playing will help improve that could not be done by focusing on the issue on bass?

Posted: **Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:43 am**

The small, unrepresentative sampling here on TC indicates that some bass players play bass exclusively (or nearly so), while others don’t. What about reasons why, that is, why do some double and others don’t? Some of the reasons outlined above are:

Pro-doubling
Because I can
It’s fun to double/I enjoy it
I can make more money
Aligns with my musical goals/aspirations
Cross-training

Anti-doubling
I enjoy playing only bass
It’s enough of a challenge without other distractions/Lack of time to devote to both (or multiple) instruments
Doesn’t align with my musical goals/aspirations

Like many things, I believe it comes down to personal choice and values, and nothing inherent in the instrument or the music.

So, additional questions for both camps:

To the anti-doublers: What would you say to, or ask of, the people who want to double on, say, euphonium or alto trombone? Contrabass trombone or even F-bass valve trombone (“cimbasso”)?

To the pro-doublers: What would you say to, or ask of, the people who do not or do not want to double on, say, tenor, or euphonium, or alto?

Posted: **Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:11 am**

If you really want to concentrate on one instrument, that's fine!

Concentrate on trombone!

A trombonist has to be able to cover to range of his instrument. High b's are not uncommon. Pedal B's are not uncommon. You have to have them both in a manner, the audience wants to hear it.
But the different kinds of trombones are not different instruments. Saying: "I only play bass!" is stupid, except you just want to doodle along in a cosy amateur-band. But if it's, what you want to do, that's fine, too!

Posted: **Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:37 pm**

I look at it this way- I would love to focus entirely on bass (and I do for longer periods, in preparation for auditions/competitions). However, that would be giving up many opportunities, both for money and experience. Some of those experiences would not be possible on bass.

For me, it's a question of "Why not?" rather than "Why?"

Posted: **Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:13 am**

Sometimes it's situational. I gig virtually exclusively on bass trombone (full-time.) I do play some tenor trombone, I just don't get called for it very much. In people's minds, I'm a bass trombone player. Even with people who know I play tenor, they just think of me that way. Luckily I live someplace where I can play bass trombone all the time and get by.

In the interest of full disclosure, I consider myself a bass trombonist first and am happy with this arrangement. I'd consider myself a tenor trombonist second and wouldn't mind the extra money!

Posted: **Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:07 pm**

I consider myself a Bass Trombone player 1st and a Tuba player 2nd. I live in an area with out a lot of gigs on any brass. I still play Tuba because I really enjoy playing Tuba. There is a large Civil War historical movement in Northwest Arkansas so a few of us started a Civil War Era Brass Band. Actually starting to get paid for gigs.

I hit 60 last year and still focus on Bass Trombone for my regional orchestra and Jazz Bands but now I want to start playing some different things for enjoyment. Just for the heck of it.

It was also asked why? Euphonium was a no-brainer. I play Bass Trombone and Tuba.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:40 am**

I play bass bone in a professional private events band (yes, mostly weddings lol). I'll openly admit in one night we play everything from Glenn Miller to Bruno Mars, the register I'm in is definitely in the tenor range. The sound is fatter though and works really well with a good tenor sax and trumpet.

I could definitely get away with using a large bore tenor (w/ f-attachment) and large mouthpiece...but the bass is like thick Texas toast instead or Italian bread for grilled cheese.

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