TromboneChat

I'd like to make a "softone" mute.
I can't spend $30 on any kind of mute and I think that making a softone mute should be relatively easy.
As far as I understnad it's constructed of thick foam rubber and some outer neoprene cover that fits on the bell.

I could stack up some foam rubber rings and saw an outer cover from some dense material - not necessarily neoprene. Should it work as expected? Is there anything more to it?

Are you looking to make it into a practice mute? If so, don't waste your time. You can make a very nice practice mute from the core of a Renuzit air freshener.

Do you want to make it into a hat mute? See if you can find an old beret at a Goodwill. You may have to cut the sweatband off to fit over your bell, depending on what size horn you have.

The SofTone is made from the kind of material used in SCUBA diving suits.

BG - yes I want to make a practice mute to reduce the volume.
Does softone work for that purpose? I don't see why not.

For instance Dem-Bro guys took that popular softone idea and made their own version for sale at Thomann:
https://www.thomannmusic.com/dem_bro_pr ... ombone.htm

They are asking $42 for a thing that I could make in an hour.

I don't think we have those Renusit containers over here in E-Europe. We mostly eat grass over here
Yep - it's hard to live here. Believe me.

FYI - Renuzit has changed the design of their "cone" and I'm not sure it would work as a practice mute. I know some people have also been successful using the International Delight Coffee Creamer bottles.

If you just put the SofTone over the bell it has some wonky intonation at extremes of range. If you "inflate" the mute it works much better. If you don't match the dimensions of the SofTone in your project you may wind up with the poor intonation.

If you want to make something to use as a substitute just be prepared to try a few prototypes until you figure out just how to make it.

First of all - there has been much said about trombone mutes, especially on the old forum.
However if anyone is interested to talk about them more please join the discussion.

Being myself an engineer (mostly electric) I wonder what engineering though goes into designing a tr-(-umpet&-ombone) mute.
There are two standard shapes of a practice mute - what we understand as a 'silencer mute'.

- One being a simple cone shaped design like a well received Wallace for instance:


- Another being a pear-shape design like Hopkins:


In an interesting article at trombone.org here:
http://trombone.org/articles/library/vi ... ?ArtID=166

... there is a comparative analysis of several muted. They all differ in muting capabilities, response and intonation tendencies.
How do designers figure out how their new designed mute will behave? Is it a purely emperical process or any acoustic science is applied as well? I believe it's mostly the former.

From the practical DIY point of view I see it would be rather easy to make a Wallace-like mute. However I don't know how actual dimentions will affect all three major paramenters that are considered in the article. And... I don't know its exact dimentions.

The second mute you posted is not intended to be a practice mute. It's a symphonic style straight mute.

A practice mute will have to seal around the bell and will have a hole of some sort that lets some of the sound out.

Part of the mystique of designing a practice mute is that the size of the cavity (and probably its shape) will have a significant effect on how it performs.

I have a large collection of practice mutes and most of them have a major problem in that they either feel very stuffy, distort the intonation, or both.

Another major problem with practice mutes is that they cut the volume so dramatically that they are hard to hear and you tend to train yourself to overblow in order to know what you are doing. The result is that you have poor control over your volume when you actually have to play unmuted.

I've seen two solutions to the volume problem. Both allow you to play into the mute and not disturb neighbors but still sound to yourself like you are playing unmuted. The first is the Yamaha Silent Brass, where there is a microphone inside the mute that feeds a small amplifier unit connected to a set of earbuds or headphones. The second is called the Peacemaker, which has a small hole with a fitting connected to a modified stethoscope. The stethoscope has a valve to control the volume of the mute at your ears.

Most of the practice mutes that seem to work best also come with steep price tags.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:05 pm If you just put the SofTone over the bell it has some wonky intonation at extremes of range. If you "inflate" the mute it works much better. If you don't match the dimensions of the SofTone in your project you may wind up with the poor intonation.

If you want to make something to use as a substitute just be prepared to try a few prototypes until you figure out just how to make it.

BG - I hear you but looking at the Softone and its substitue from Thomann that I mentioned above this kind of mute should be least demanding in terms of the exact design. Don't you agree?
The original Softone shell is made of neoprene and the Thomann one is made of faux leather. They simply match the bell dimentions on the outside. And inside there is only foam rubber they put in sofas.
So I want to repeat my question. In this particular case is there anything more to it?

BG - thank you for your insights.
If you were to own only one practice mute what would it be?

Can a symphonic mute be used in place of a practice mute with some success, to some degree?
Or do they NOT mute the volume at all?

The SofTone has nothing on the inside. My experience with "stuffed mutes" is from the original Mannie Klein mute which is the epitome of "stuffy", and combines with the intonation issues at the extremes of range.

Can a symphonic mute be used in place of a practice mute with some success, to some degree?
Or do they NOT mute the volume at all?

A symphonic mute will change your timbre and only slightly reduce volume.
A cup mute will reduce the volume more.

Depending on the design of the mute some will cause the sound to get very "wonky" at a certain note -- generally low A or Ab, but sometimes lower D.

If you were to own only one practice mute what would it be?

My mute of choice its the Yamaha Silent Brass, but the SofTone has the advantage of being able to stuff in the corner of a case and to double as a bucket mute.

It sounds like any of them will work equally good or equally bad...

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:32 pm ...

Another major problem with practice mutes is that they cut the volume so dramatically that they are hard to hear and you tend to train yourself to overblow in order to know what you are doing. The result is that you have poor control over your volume when you actually have to play unmuted.

...

That's amazing. The sound shouts in my ears so loud I have to crank the TV to an annoying volume. Meanwhile the horn is well under conversation quiet.

TBoneHalfNote wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:03 pm It sounds like any of them will work equally good or equally bad...

Some are insanely better than others. The acoustics are in Yamaha's patent. The part you're interested in basically says the mute has to be longer than the lowest note's exterior node in order not to warp the tuning. So their mutes are long.

BTW, I have a Yammy euph mute, complete, free for local pickup, Boston area.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:32 pm ...
A practice mute will have to seal around the bell and will have a hole of some sort that lets some of the sound out.
...

Bruce - I wonder how come a Denis Wick practice mute looks like a straight mute and at the same time it has no holes and also completely seals the bell?

By the way, comparing just by the plain looks of Denis Wick and Hopkins they are basically the same with minor shape differences. Does it mean it's possible to convert the Hopkins into a practice mute just by sealing it with the cork all around its base similar to Wick?

You should ask if anyone has one they want to sell. I have attempted to make music accessories before, and it ends of costing more than just buying what you wanted in the first place. Plus item you want works better too.

The Denis Wick practice mute actually has two small (3mm) holes at the widest part of the mute. They don't show in the image probably because they are 90 and 270 degrees from the angle of view.

I have converted a Denis Wick practice mute into a straight mute by cutting the cork. Never tried the reverse.

MTbassbone wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:10 pm You should ask if anyone has one they want to sell. I have attempted to make music accessories before, and it ends of costing more than just buying what you wanted in the first place. Plus item you want works better too.

+1

I knew a someone in college who for lack of better words was VERY thrifty. He refused to buy mutes because he was too cheap to pick them up since he didn't have to use them every song.

Our professor eventually got sick of it and chewed him out for not having any mutes. He chimed back with the usual excuses and our professor tells him he has to show up next rehearsal with mutes or not play the next concert. He told him he needed to buy or borrow mutes, he needed to get it done, even that means he has to make his own. Well... the student took him up on his challenge and walked in the next rehearsal with homemade mutes.

His collection of mutes was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

His straight mute was a cut down 1L soda bottle with padding, hot glued on like cork so it would fit in his bell. His cup mute was the same thing with a paper mache cup on the top of the bottle. His bucket mute was a literal bucket with a small pillow on the inside and clips hot glued on the bucket. The worst was his plunger mute. This dude was so cheap that instead of just buying a plunger for $5 like everyone else in the world he knitted his own plunger shaped mute... Yeah...

Needless to say, we were all blown away and fairly impressed hahaha. All his mutes sounded like *%^$ but!!! he did prove to everyone that you can make mutes with a budget of $0.

I always think of this story whenever someone talks about making their own mutes

Power to you man. If you're able to make your own mutes that's awesome! But it'll save you a ton of time and more than likely money too if you just find one used on Facebook or the classifieds.

Nice story
Have you watched this video on YT? That guy has some skill

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:25 pm ...I have converted a Denis Wick practice mute into a straight mute by cutting the cork. Never tried the reverse.

Bruce, it's interesting to note that in the article I indicated above the author suggests the following:
"The Denis Wick practice mute appears to be an adaptation of a straight mute."

So it sounds like you reverse engineered the Wick to it's original intention!
Apparently one can successfully drill a couple holes in any straight mute and make it a practice mute by sealing the shank. It's even probably possible to use such a mute as a double purpose one provided the holes can be plugged and the cork added or removed as one desires.

Apparently one can successfully drill a couple holes in any straight mute and make it a practice mute by sealing the shank. It's even probably possible to use such a mute as a double purpose one provided the holes can be plugged and the cork added or removed as one desires.

That sounds a lot easier than it would be to implement. The corks are glued down and if you make the joint too easy to break it won't hold the mute in the trombone. Converting the Wick practice mute to a straight required a lot of cutting and scraping and it still looks like a crude job.

I use the Protec practice mute (knock-off of the BestBrass one I think) for about $30, so that's getting down there price-wise. But the best practice mute I ever found was a walk-in closet full of my wife's clothes. According to my wife, outside of the closet my volume was about whisper-level. Intonation was perfect, just like playing unmuted.

If you're not averse to buying from China, you can get a pretty good practice mute for from under $5.00 to around $6.50 with free shipping on eBay. For max effectiveness, moderately stuff the mute with cotton. Intonation's usually not bad, and sound reduction is good.

Doubler wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:09 pm If you're not averse to buying from China, you can get a pretty good practice mute for from under $5.00 to around $6.50 with free shipping on eBay. For max effectiveness, moderately stuff the mute with cotton. Intonation's usually not bad, and sound reduction is good.

I've seen those mutes and they seem to be acceptable in terms of their looks.
They are called 'Slade' although many incorrectly list them as 'LADE' skipping the first 'S' which looks more like a trade mark sign.
It looks like a direct copy of Protec ML204 Liberty with the only difference that Slade is made of ABS plastic and Protec is aluminum.

Slade:


Protec:

What most trombone players dont realize, is that the Softone Mute is a great way to shorten your warm-up time. Blow it up like a balloon over the bell and ease into the feel of it with your chops.

Not being able to center upper register notes is just a reminder you need to have a more focused embouchure. When you achieve that with the mute, then you have set up your chops for just about anything.

Then hang it over the bell as a bucket mute. I use it daily; and it really helps to keep my chops in shape.

iranepus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:20 pm What most trombone players dont realize, is that the Softone Mute is a great way to shorten your warm-up time. Blow it up like a balloon over the bell and ease into the feel of it with your chops.

Not being able to center upper register notes is just a reminder you need to have a more focused embouchure. When you achieve that with the mute, then you have set up your chops for just about anything.

Then hang it over the bell as a bucket mute. I use it daily; and it really helps to keep my chops in shape.

I'm a big fan of your Softone mute. It's lightweight, easily transportable, and covers 90% of what I need. And you aren't gouging us with the price.

--Andy in OKC

Thumbs up for the ‘Softone’... and nice to hear from the inventor and great player himself, Ira Nepus!

I bought one about 20 years ago and appreciate it more now that I’ve grown to understand what it takes for me to get ready for my gigs (mostly live in clubs or weddings or situations where I can’t disturb people or other musicians getting ready).

I find that I do warm up faster and the chops feel ready to go by easing into it, just as Ira says.

And it makes a great bucket mute for sure as a bonus!

One of my best purchases ever.

I use Renuzit mutes for considerate warmups in public. They work fine, and if you look inside the air flow mimics that in a car muffler - down to the bottom and back up before exiting the tube. (some goes straight in, you could probably improve that.) I don't use them for long practice periods as I have a basement and no close neighbors (except for those already deafened by their own barking dogs. But I digress..........)

I'm one who believes the loud long trombone warmup at the beginning of a rehearsal or concert is extremely rude. We totally drown out any chance of conversation, fine tuning, extra guidance from conductor or section lead, etc. Warmup at home or back stage, play a couple notes to check the acoustic, put the horn on the stand and do a sudoku. Or bring a good practice mute. But I seem to be a minority on this point.

One improvement to the Renuzit: You need to seal around the mute, and you need to have it securely retained in the bell. Those two different functions are usually served with one continuous band of cork or weatherstrip, but I separate them. I use what looks like regular mute cork strips to do the retention, allowing me to match the bell profile, and add short pieces in between to do the seal.

One of our forum members has provided files for 3D printing practice mutes, if you have access to a library with a makerspace.

Baileyman - do you still have a yammy euph mute to give away>

TBoneHalfNote wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:36 pm Can a symphonic mute be used in place of a practice mute with some success, to some degree?
Or do they NOT mute the volume at all?

Yes. The DW straight and practice mute are the same aluminium body, the straight has three cork strips, the practice a full round cork and two small holes drilled where bottom and cone meets.

I converted a DW practice mute to a straight just by reforming with three strips, works very well.

You can drill two holes in the straight, and seal with a piece of towel wrapped around the body, then you have a convertible mute.

But the Brenner shhhh mute plays better ...

TBoneHalfNote wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:54 pm I'd like to make a "softone" mute.
I can't spend $30, so I better buy sheet materials here https://sheetmaterialswholesale.co.uk/ on any kind of mute and I think that making a softone mute should be relatively easy.
As far as I understnad it's constructed of thick foam rubber and some outer neoprene cover that fits on the bell.

I could stack up some foam rubber rings and saw an outer cover from some dense material - not necessarily neoprene. Should it work as expected? Is there anything more to it?

Dude? it's not that easy as you think, you beter watch some diy videos on youtube