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Low B Attachment
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:25 am
by samgellerstein
When I purchased my current Bass Trombone, it came with that giant low B extension (Bb/F/D/B) are these sought after/ worth much? I'm literally never going to use it and would like to move it if I could. Also I've only ever seen one guy use it, have you also seen it used much?
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:58 am
by Burgerbob
Some people like them! Is it for your Brasslab Bach?
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:05 am
by JohnL
If it fits a fairly common model, you should be able to sell it. There's always someone who wants to try one. Of course, most people only try it a few times before they decide it's bleeping lot of weight for something you don't use very often - but by they, you've got your money and the new owner needs to find someone else that just has to give it a try.
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:35 pm
by Tremozl
So you have a small bore Contrabass Trombone with the horn standing in an ascending Bb position?
Can I see? I've never seen a horn configured like what you mentioned.
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:16 pm
by imsevimse
samgellerstein wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:25 am
When I purchased my current Bass Trombone, it came with that giant low B extension (Bb/F/D/B) are these sought after/ worth much? I'm literally never going to use it and would like to move it if I could. Also I've only ever seen one guy use it, have you also seen it used much?
I have never met a bass trombone player with that setu but I think Erik van Lier did at one time and the bass trombone player in the James Last orchestra in the 80's tour that I bought my horn from. I bought his Olds P24-G and it came with such an option It is a good idea but as anyone will notice it fast becomes very heavy on your shoulder.
Everyghing can be played with the F/D setup or if you need the more positions you just get an inline bass, I don't think I ever will be in real need of that valve.
/Tom
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:20 pm
by JohnL
As I understand it, most of the people who used that sort of system didn't use the two valves together very often - they either used the F attachment or the D attachment.
Consider playing a low C on a Bb-F-D dependent, Bb-F-Gb-D indy, and a Bb-F-D-B indy. On a Bb-F-D, you've got both valves engaged - four right angle turns. Likewise on a Bb-F-Gb-D indy. But on a Bb-F-D-B indy, you'd only have the D valve engaged - only two right angle turns, plus playing through one side of the F valve. If you were dealing with conventional rotors, particularly ones that were undersize, that might make a difference.
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:27 pm
by blast
Back in the late '70's and early '80's lots of us had such tubing. It was a way of getting a freer blow in the days before fancy valves and huge mouthpieces. I have inherited extra plumbing of this kind for the Rath.... not really much practical use, but visually it starts to look like a contra and therefore may attract an extra fee for no extra effort.
Chris
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:02 am
by whitbey
Low B seems odd to me. My bass is Bb/F/C dependent. Low C in 1st with B and Bb close in 2 and 3 makes sense.
I converted the 2nd valve E to the C in the early 80's. Had a larger bore pipe on the C pipe so it blows very open.
Makes things simple that low C's and B's are the same as the in staff C's and B's.
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:34 am
by hyperbolica
whitbey wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:02 am
Low B seems odd to me. My bass is Bb/F/C dependent. Low C in 1st with B and Bb close in 2 and 3 makes sense.
I converted the 2nd valve E to the C in the early 80's. Had a larger bore pipe on the C pipe so it blows very open.
Makes things simple that low C's and B's are the same as the in staff C's and B's.
If it's a Bb/F/C dependent, wouldn't the low Cb/B actually be in a flatter 2nd position than the B an octave up because of the extra 2nd valve tubing?
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:44 am
by imsevimse
JohnL wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:20 pm
As I understand it, most of the people who used that sort of system didn't use the two valves together very often - they either used the F attachment or the D attachment.
Consider playing a low C on a Bb-F-D dependent, Bb-F-Gb-D indy, and a Bb-F-D-B indy. On a Bb-F-D, you've got both valves engaged - four right angle turns. Likewise on a Bb-F-Gb-D indy. But on a Bb-F-D-B indy, you'd only have the D valve engaged - only two right angle turns, plus playing through one side of the F valve. If you were dealing with conventional rotors, particularly ones that were undersize, that might make a difference.
I experimentet with my Olds P24G when I bought it a year ago and found the Bb/F/Eb/C tuning to be most versatile but on the other hand Bb/F/D/B is more close to what I'm used to on my dependent horns where both valves gives a D on first position. I have not thought of that with fewer turns, the reason Chris Stern picked up. Maybe I will reconsider and play Bb/F/D/B instead.
/Tom
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:52 am
by JohnL
whitbey wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:02 am
Low B seems odd to me. My bass is Bb/F/C dependent. Low C in 1st with B and Bb close in 2 and 3 makes sense.
I converted the 2nd valve E to the C in the early 80's. Had a larger bore pipe on the C pipe so it blows very open.
Makes things simple that low C's and B's are the same as the in staff C's and B's.
Great for C and B, but that makes you play all of the other privilege tones with just the F attachment. Db is out there in the flat 6. With the Bb/F/D/B tuning, Db is in around 2.5 and B is out around 5.5 (or in 1, if you want to use both valves).
Remember - it's not about the low B.
hyperbolica wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:34 amIf it's a Bb/F/C dependent, wouldn't the low Cb/B actually be in a flatter 2nd position than the B an octave up because of the extra 2nd valve tubing?
Actually, it ends up being out around third...
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:35 pm
by whitbey
hyperbolica wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:34 am
whitbey wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:02 am
Low B seems odd to me. My bass is Bb/F/C dependent. Low C in 1st with B and Bb close in 2 and 3 makes sense.
I converted the 2nd valve E to the C in the early 80's. Had a larger bore pipe on the C pipe so it blows very open.
Makes things simple that low C's and B's are the same as the in staff C's and B's.
If it's a Bb/F/C dependent, wouldn't the low Cb/B actually be in a flatter 2nd position than the B an octave up because of the extra 2nd valve tubing?
Yes, the positions are much longer. A in the 4th is between 5th and 6th straight. A 5th pos does not exist. Double pedal Bb's play very nice and often so do A's.
Also, when playing between low C and pedal Bb, the Bb is smoother with all the valves in 3rd.
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:27 am
by Tremozl
I imagine pedal C blows almost as well as an F contra?
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:52 am
by blast
When I used extra tube as a first option it was Eb and C in combo.
To be honest with Hagmanns the standard setup plays better.
Chris
Re: Low B Attachment
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:22 pm
by whitbey
Tremozl wrote: ↑Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:27 am
I imagine pedal C blows almost as well as an F contra?
Better.